Thursday, March 24, 2011

"He Says/She Says" co-starring @CityGirlsWorld

Here's the story: Late last year, I tweeted about my blog "Chick Flicks & Salsa" and shared it with some of my favorite relationship bloggers on Twitter. In it, I hint at the fact that I believe it is the man who should be the leader in any relationship. One of the bloggers that I sent this to, Jess of @CityGirlsWorld, respectfully disagreed, saying that it should be "70/30 or 60/40, man/woman" (paraphrasing). This lead to a friendly Twitter debate on the subject, after which we both agreed that the topic deserved mere attention than we would be able to give it with Twitter's 140 character per post limit. Jess suggested that we collaborate and do a "He Said, She Said" blog together, where we both give our opinions on the subject. The following is our 3 part series, all featured on Jess and Christie's site, "City Girls' World." Enjoy :-)


***Jess & Christie have since closed their website.  Fortunately, I pdf'd the articles prior to that and was able to salvage them.  Below are the articles in text form.  To my wonderful ladies of the late "City Girls World", if you ever read this again, thank you so much for our pleasant and colorful interactions.  I wish y'all the best!!!***


He Says/She Says with SmooveSalsero! Part 1: I Love You?
Posted by Christie - 20/01/11 at 08:01 am
After a feisty tweet-off about dating rules with one of our favorite readers, Myron (aka SmooveSalsero), we thought it'd be fun to pin him down about some of our favorite dating "issues" and see how our opinions compared. Are men and women really that different? Do we *maybe* see things the same way? Wait—don't answer that!! 
But instead of viewing men as the Coke, and women as the Pepsi, maybe our he said/she said will out us all as Dr. Pepper? 
As such, we bring you.... our newest he says/she says!

1. Who should say "I Love You" first? Is there a timeline/deadline where it has to be said?

He says: I know many women would feel like they'd be waiting forever and half an eternity for this to happen with certain guys, but I think it should be the man who says "I love you" first. A younger, less mature version of myself would disagree with what I am about to say, but I am a firm believer that it should be the man who initiates and sets the tone of a relationship. Why, you ask? Consider these things: even the most independent, liberal, "I-don't-need-a-man" type of woman wants to feel desired and pursued; that the man that is with her chose her above any other woman. Even the laziest, timid, wishy-washy, unassertive man will go after something if he really wants it. Ladies, you would rather have a guy that really wants you as opposed to a guy that just kinda wants you or isn't sure if he wants you, right? If you have to say "I love you" first, he either isn't sure he that he does, or he doesn't love/want you enough.
Now, here's where it gets complicated. If you tell a guy you love him first, he may stick around and tell you what you want to hear. Why would he do this? Here's an analogy that may help. I prefer Pepsi over Coke (yet, I'm from the South... go figure). I don't dislike Coke, but if I have my choice and I really want a soda, I'm going to get a Pepsi However, if you just happen to offer me a free Coke, I'm probably not going to turn it down. Now, if you give me Diet Coke, which I really can't stand the taste of I'm probably going to turn you down, unless I'm just dying of thirst. Get the picture? If something free just falls into someone's lap, said person is not going to turn it down unless he or she truly does not like whatever it is. Same as with a relationship: unless the guy is one of the more honorable of the gender or he just finds you completely repulsive, he is going to let you hang around instead of telling you he really doesn't like you like that, because having you around is better than not having a girlfriend.
As far as a timeline or deadline, I don't think you can put a rule or guideline on it. You have to know that for yourself.  How long is too long for you? It also depends on the other person. Whether you're a woman waiting on the guy to say it first or you're the guy and you're waiting for her to reciprocate, you have to decide for yourself if that person is worth it. You have to know your own worth first, and from there you can determine if your time is being wasted or not.
Christie Says: SmooveSalsero makes really good points...and now I am also craving a soda (I also like Pepsi!). I think I've mostly had relationships where I do find that the man says 'I love you" first...to me, that has signified his commitment to a serious relationship that is definitely going somewhere.
However, I do think that there is something to be said for girl power, and for cutting through the crap. When I was in my early 20's, I often felt I was game playing rather than really committing. I had a set of arbitrary rules in my mind, and I would hang onto someone longer than I should have because I was following the rulebook and waiting on him to act like the plot of some sort of 1940's movie. As I get older, I realize that I don't have the time or patience for game playing or waiting around... so, I often just cut to the chase. Granted, this may not mean saying "I love you" first, but it does mean that if I don't feel it, or if my gut twinges and says "this doesn't feel quite right" then I move on.
I do this because I whole-heartedly believe that you know. In a good relationship you know if he loves you and you love him, regardless if the words have been spoken or not. It's shown in every small way—how you talk to each other, how you take of each other, even with how you look at each other (with that special sparkle in your eye! Versus, you know, a creepy stare). And if you feel after a certain period of time that you don't know, or you feel like you need to say it in order to find out, then you are in denial about his feelings and probably just kidding yourself.  I say this knowing it is harsh, but I honestly believe that it is a basic truth.
As to the timeline—whenever it feels right. Say it. Don't be afraid to shout it from the rooftops. If you feel that certain, then he does too.

He Says/She Says Part II: Exclusivity
Posted by Christie - 24/02/11 at 10:02 am
The second in our three part series with SmooveSalsero!
Does exclusivity need to be a conversation? (aka the "where is this going?" conversation). Remember high school when we'd just hold hands and assume we're boyfriend and girlfriend? Why can't it be like that? (or can it?!)
He Says: I wish it were as simple as it was back in High School. Then again; for me, it wasn't that simple. I was painfully shy and insecure back then, so I never approached women. Ok, I digress; I'll refrain from any further venting about my romantic adventures (or lack thereof) in High School.
Unfortunately for us all, it's not that simple, and that's exactly why I believe exclusivity needs to be a
conversation. Assumptions often lead to embarrassment and the wasting of one's time and energy. This is doubly true for relationships. I think the "where is this going?" conversation definitely needs to happen. You don't just hop in your car and ride, without knowing where you're going, do you? Likewise, if you don't have "the talk" with the person in question, you may think that you're already halfway to the other side of the country when he or she thinks you haven't even left the driveway.
I don't think that the initiator of said conversation needs to be the man. It's not quite as serious as the commitment of saying "I love you." I mean, I think we all deserve to have clarity/closure in a situation, regardless of gender. However, I will say this: if you are a woman and you are considering initiating the "where is this going?" conversation, I dare say that if you had to ask, you probably know the answer already, and it's probably not the one you were looking for. There are plenty of exceptions that keep this from being a rule, but for the most part if you as a woman are having to start this conversation, either it isn't where you think it should be or want it to be, or he isn't doing a very good job of leading or making things clear to you.
Another reason why I think exclusivity needs to be a conversation is that each person needs to know what the other person expects. It's like reading the fine print on a contract: you both need to know what you're getting into. It's not fair to expect something from someone else when they don't know that you're expecting it. How exclusive (or not) you want to be, where you want the relationship to go, how often you want to see each other, your love languages, your pet peeves, what you will and won't stand for; all that needs to be discussed up front ifa relationship is to last.

She Says: There was a time I specialized in European men (living in Europe made that easy) and let me tell you how things work over there. You meet, you hook up, you hang out, you hook up again, and then he installs a toothbrush and razor in your bathroom. In week 2, he'll invite you to meet his parents. I recall one particular phone call with a guy I had been dating for about a week. We were talking about our international connections (relatives living abroad, etc) when he casually mentioned that he had an American girlfriend. I gasped. What kind of a-hole would date a girl, profess his adoration for her, leave a toothbrush at her place all the while he already has a girlfriend?! ! Then it hit me. It was me. I was the girlfriend. But how could it have happened so fast? And without me knowing (or giving consent)?! What kind of strange universe had I entered?
But we don't live in Europe. We don't have their affordable wine, their fresh bread, or their commitment-ready men. No.
Over here in the US of A, we have certain rules. And one of them is that there has to be some sort of established mutual agreement before a relationship becomes serious (read: monogamous).
I agree with Smoove when he suggests that the answer is probably already in your gut. In my experience, when I (or he) felt the need to spell it out, it was because one ofus was not fully on board. By contrast, in the serious relationships I've had, the transition from dating to boyfriend/girlfriend was a gradual but plainly obvious process. If you are talking about plans for next month, if you are telling each other how much you lace each other, if you're meeting each other's friends, if you are making jokes about other women/men in your life (as in, "don't worry, all the girls at my office are already married"), well then you can see the writing on the wall. And one day soon enough, someone will drop the word "boyfriend" into a conversation. It may not even be one of you.  Meddling friends can be really helpful in this way! And voila, you'll know. Just hang tight and pay attention.

He Says/She Says Part 3: Can She Make the First Move?
Posted by Guest Author - 24/03/11 at 10:03 am
Part 3 of our he says/she says series with SmooveSalsero! Is it ever awesome for a girl to make the first move? If so, how should she do it?
He Says:
This may seem slightly contrary to my answer in the previous article on who should say "I love you" first, but I do think it is awesome for the girl to make the first move. The difference between being the first to make a move and the first to say "I Love You" is this: with the former, you are just letting the guy know you are interested. With the latter, you are pushing the relationship (if it can even be called such at that point) into a place that the other person may not be ready for or even want to enter into.
To me, for a woman to make the first move by asking me out, it is indeed flattering and it makes it obvious to me that she's interested, or at least interested in getting to know me, and that's enough for me to consider, or more seriously consider, the possibility of the same with her. How should she do it? I'll point you to a great article byfellow blogger and tweeter, Steven J. Dixon:
There's hardly anything in this article that I can disagree with Basically, if you do ask a guy out, it's really for the sole purpose of getting him to take notice of you and let him know that you're available. After that, it's best to leave the ball in his court. Give him the "green light," so to speak, but he has to make the choice of whether to go straight, or instead turn left/right/u-turn. Anything past that, and you're taking control of the relationship. As long as you're in a relationship with that guy, you'll find it hard to ever get him to step up and take charge of anything because you set that tone from the beginning, and you will eventually resent him for that. You have to let him know you want to be chased (and caught), but no more than that. Otherwise, he will never truly pursue you because he feels has no need to. You have jumped into his lap and given him the impression that you're not going anywhere.
She Says:
Jess here, speaking for both of us. We are big proponents of women making the first move. Now, notice I don't say we enjoy/prefer/believe in it. It's just a question of practicality.
All women know the typical Friday night bar scene. There you are scoping the crowd, looking for that one gentleman in the crowd that may be appealing —a diamond in the rough. But just as you spot him and establish eye contact, BAM, a slimy dude and his entourage jump in. While you're squirming under his lame attempt at conversation (or worse you let him buy you a drink and now you feel obliged to stay and chat), Mr. Adorable has looked away with a discouraged sigh.
What's a gal to do? Rather than lose out on great guys night after night, you have to take matters into your own hands. After all, the kind of guy you're seeking is maybe not the one that slithers in with a slimy pick-up line, right? So, Christie and I advise that if you see something you like, you might as well walk up and take it (or, errr, talk to it, as the case may be).
Now admittedly, Christie is an opener and I am a better closer. But we have employed various techniques at making the first move that don't require us to make much of a move at all. Like Smoove says, you still want the guy to be doing the pursuing. We just help out by letting him know that his advances will be welcome.
Game on.
Round 1? Eye contact. Get his attention. If he doesn't walk over right away, add a flirty smile for good measure. This usually will do the trick.
Round 2? If the guy is making eye contact and smiling back but still not walking over, it may be that he's young, inexperienced, shy, or just dim. Either way, in this case we recommend adding the "wave over." Use one hand, smile, and make the motion of "come here." You'd be amazed at how effective this can be. So simple, even the shiest girl can pull it off and yet it's a move that oozes confidence and sex appeal You can also use the wave over in round one if you are looking to expedite the process.
Round 3? There are those rare occasions where you just want to make a bold statement and then move along. For those instances, you need the "face grab" — a patented move whereby you walk up to the gentleman, place your hands on the sides of his face, lean in, and smack one on him (we strongly recommend doing a shot beforehand). Be warned that this is a powerful maneuver and in at least one instance caused the subject to come running out of the bar screaming and begging for Christie's phone number. For that reason and many others, we will probably never be able to visit Rome again. But that is a tale for another time...

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